Bible Gem 2380 – You Cannot Be Serious (Revelation 21:8)

But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulphur. This is the second death.  

Revelation 21:8

Those of you who know me well will know the background to my use of this comment in the title of this Gem. If you don’t know the background and wonder how I could dare to apply it to this Gem, simply read the quotes at the end of this Gem. Given the quote you can read below of Israel Folau’s post in 2018, there arose a vitriolic series of responses from both sides of the argument through the internet at the time. I was watching an episode of Seven Sharp with Hillary Barry and invited guests debating Israel Folau’s comment and the interpretation of Revelation 21:8. As I recall, Hillary set the scene for the debate by asking those on the panel how many had told a lie. They all confessed to having lied; “We all have”. They then mocked John’s statement in Revelation with a tone of how ridiculous is this statement. There won’t be anyone in heaven because everyone has told a lie of some sort. So don’t worry, we will all end up in hell together. [Something like that.] I thought if only I could explain the point of this verse. Now I have my chance; this Gem is for you Hillary and all others who want to understand the deeper level of meaning behind this comment from John’s letter to the seven churches in Revelation. “You can’t be serious John, this condemns us all to hell.” Well hang on to your hat, let’s explore this statement in the context in which John wrote it.

Contrary to the above debate, John was very serious and this statement still applies in all of its stark truth now in this modern day and age. Don’t lose sight of the fact that John was only passing on from God Himself what he had seen and heard. That which God had told him was trustworthy and true. Do you want to know the truth dear reader? Well here it is!

I told you in the previous Gem that John had laid out two contrastive realities. He has summed up what’s in store for the Children of Light in verses 1 to 7. Now in this single verse he gives us the reality for the Children of Darkness. Notice first how much time he put into the two sides of this contrastive reality. He took seven verses to describe what awaits the Children of God; he now takes one verse to let those who have rejected God know what is in store for them. He has already taken this approach before in the previous two chapters where he built the tension for the final battle in 19 and then in three quick verses at the end the antagonists are disposed of and the battle is over. Again in Chapter 20, we have the build up to the final coup de gras and suddenly in 20:10 it is all over.

But we are still left with the disturbing conclusion related to eternal conscious torment or annihilationism. I laid that before you in Gem 2374. [Don’t worry I will deal with that at the right time; I haven’t forgotten. Our last opportunity to deal with our conclusion lies with two remaining verses: Revelation 21:27 and 22:15.] That will be your last opportunity to process your conclusion from the video link I gave you in Gem 2374.

Suffice to say, again we have John using seven verses to cover what lies ahead for the children of God and one verse of warning for the children of darkness. It is this final verse [21:8] I want to dissect for you to ensure you understand it. It’s John’s summary of the likely future for those whose names are NOT written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. It is a summary verse of warning for those left without God’s covering at the final judgement. You have to admit it’s a strange list of seemingly disparate unrelated generic characteristics. I am sure you could compile a different list with juicy specific words covering your list of unforgivable sins.

• Cowards
• Unbelievers
• The Corrupt
• Murderers
• The Immoral
• Those who practise witchcraft
• Idol worshipers
• All liars

Seriously? All liars! You can understand I am sure why Hillary and the panel on Seven Sharp came to the conclusion they did. The fate of all liars is in the fiery lake of burning sulphur, the second death! Who can escape? We are all doomed!

Let’s look behind this list to understand it further:

• [δειλοῖς] deilois “cowards”:- fearful, afraid, with respect to persevering, bearing testimony to Christ.
• [ἀπίστοις] apistois “unbelieving”:- unfaithful, faithless, false followers of Christ, those who refuse to believe cf the victorious, those persevering to the end.
• [ἐβδελυγμένοις] ebdelugmenois “the corrupt”:- having become foul, abominable, detestable (to God), disgusting (morally), polluted, a stench to God.
• [φονεῦσιν] phoneusin “murderers”:- those who commit murder, take a human life – one life, or serial killers.
• [πόρνοις] pornois “the immoral”:- fornicators, those who engage in unlawful sexual practices God has forbidden.
• [φαρμακοῖς] pharmakois “practise witchcraft”:- sorcerers those who cast spells, use potions, drugs, links to satan.
• [εἰδωλολάτραις] eidōlolatrais ‘idolaters’ – idol worshippers, bow to false gods, images
• [πᾶσιν ταῖς ψευδέσιν] pasin tais pseudesin, ‘every liar who keeps on lying’ – compulsive / inveterate liars, false, deceitful, pretenders, maintain religious pretense, propagate fake news(?).

All of the above grammatical forms carry the sense of people who continue to practise these things as opposed to having done it once or occasionally and then repent and no longer do it. Those who have adopted the life style of a practitioner and have become that which is described. I can’t speak officially for Hillary Barry, but the tone of the discussion on that Seven Sharp programme was that of incredulity that anyone “who had told a lie” was doomed to hell. NO! That is not what is meant. Besides, at issue is not whether I nor Israel Folau are serious about this above list. The fact is that God is serious about it! It is not a question as to whether a person was once engaged in any of the above practices. The issue at heart is whether they continue to practise such things. Not whether you have ever told a lie but whether you have become an inveterate liar. An “inveterate liar” by dictionary definition is “someone who lies habitually, frequently over a long period of time, making them unlikely to stop. It refers to a deeply rooted, chronic habit of dishonesty that is difficult to change. They are often considered untrustworthy and may lie even when it is unnecessary.” For each of the above eight categories, the same principle applies. What is at the heart of it is the continuous ongoing activity that has now characterised the practitioner.

I will look at each of these actions that will doom you to hell or to be cast into the lake of fire or subject to eternal conscious torment in the context in which I believe John intended. But of course more importantly from the point of view of what God Himself intends.

Cowards [deilois]

This is a strange category which stands out as an unusual misfit in the list. John’s most likely intention lies in the context of the call for the followers of Christ to persevere until the end in the face of likely persecution and death. The catch cry throughout Revelation has been “don’t be afraid”, “stand firm in your faith”. Thus the admonition here to those who succumbed to fear in the midst of the threat of death. Rather than being afraid of the first death; fear Him who has the power to kill both body and soul in hell. [Matt 10:28] Fear the second death; not the first death, the one we all go through.

Unbelievers [apistois]

This category is most likely aimed at those who professed to be followers of Christ but who were not at all [Matt 7:22-23]. Apistois literally refers to those “without faith” despite claiming to have faith. As well as those who denied Him when it came to the crunch, this category includes those who under the threat of persecution and death lost their nerve and bowed to the beast and accepted his mark. This is of particular interest to John given the key verse to his Gospel is John 20:31. John wrote his Gospel to advise people what it means to believe.

Detestable [ebdelugmenois]

The category is singled out in a sense in that they are stated as those who are detestable to God Himself – labelled “the corrupt” [NLT] or abominable, polluted, a stench to God, from the middle passive verb root [bdelussomai]. In the immediate context of Revelation it likely refers to those who worshipped satan and the beast. But there is another category listed as “abominable” in Scripture found in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13. Meaning this category is labelled as those whose conduct is offensive to God. Why?

God designed a world in which marital and sexual relationships were normative. He spelt out clearly in the early chapters of Genesis that the world he created was balanced between two genders: male and female. Those two genders were so that the pairings of male and female could multiply and fill the earth with offspring. Not only that but the human pairing was perfectly suited for each other to the extent they completed or complemented one another. They belonged together, ishah (the woman) came from ish (the man) and made him complete. The pattern is not only created as normal but also to be normative. Have you seen the symmetry built into Genesis 1 and 2? It was good (1:4, 1:10, 1:12, 1:18, 1:21, 1:25], but when He made man and woman, He created them male and female [1:27] and pronounced the outcome “very good” [1:31]. They were the perfect complement of one another; made perfectly for each other in every way. I am sure you are aware I could add much more,

Given that background, Paul then wrote:

²⁶That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. ²⁷And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved. ²⁸Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done.

Romans 1:26-28

Murderers [phoneusin]

Again in the specific context of Revelation these are likely to be those who murdered or slaughtered the martyrs. However it is also conceivable that anyone who enjoyed committing murder, with a lust for blood, are included in this category. The point being someone who murdered another human being can be forgiven if they repent of that single act. The one who goes on a killing spree like Felicien in Gems 2298, 2322, 2324 and 2326 is characteristic of the extreme example of this category. I am sure you can think of some who fit at the extreme end of multiple murderers, you don’t need me to single them out, but I thought Felicien was a good modern example.

Fornicators [pornois]

Although the Greek term “pornois” suggests something to do with ‘pornography’, it was not considered specifically applicable to that in John’s day. Rather it was a general term covering fornication and those who engage in unlawful sexual practices that God has forbidden. In Roman times it included temple prostitutes, orgies, as well as anal sex, bestiality, and sexual acts involving multiple partners as well as same sex practices. Most are covered in the Holiness Code found in Leviticus 17-20. I won’t spell them all out. [Some practices I have left unexplained for the sake of avoiding ‘tmi’. Feel free to ask specific questions if you have any.]

Sorcerers [pharmakois]

In Roman times this term was used to describe those who practised the black magic and any links to the occult, satanic evil, casting of spells, as well as potions and ancient pharmacea, the use of drugs, chemical concoctions and soothsaying. There were an abundance of sorcerers involved in the Emperor Cult and the Trade Guilds during the Roman Empire. I am sure readers can extrapolate from this term the most likely modern day equivalents of pharmakois.

Idolaters [eidōlolatrais]

The Roman world was steeped in idolatry. Throughout the Empire there were thousands if not hundreds of thousands of idols, images, fetishes etc. These were seen in Emperor worship, the Trade Guilds as well as pagan temples. To be part of the Roman business world one had to pay homage and offer sacrifice to myriad idols, images or objects dedicated to the plethora of Roman and Greek gods. There are a multitude of objects or portals of power I have specified under the Nuggets I wrote on Strongholds.

Liars [pasin tais pseudesin]

I believe I have already made the inclusion of liars in this list clear from by what I have written above. Remember John’s underlying intent here is to warn us against committing these practices to the point of become characterised by the wrong doing listed. In so doing our conscience becomes seared to the point we are no longer able to allow God to transform us.

It is interesting to note the importance of what Paul wrote in Romans 1. He wrote at the time of his letters that God’s wrath is being made known (Romans 1:18) on every kind of sinful practice even back in the First Century AD. How was that possible? Isn’t God’s wrath something that happens on Judgement Day? No, Paul makes it clear God’s wrath occurs when God “gives us over” or abandons us to our sinful ways. Paul wrote it three times:- ‘God gave them over’ – Rom 1:24, 1:26 and 1:28. Pay very careful attention when God repeats something three times. Don’t allow yourself to become trapped in your sinful ways. God is always ready to forgive the one who seeks to change and turn their back on these practices, even murder or the abominable things God despises! What is in focus in the list found in Revelation 21:8 is not the person who told a lie or committed the occasional murder in the past. Rather it is the person who has known and rejected God’s ways (Rom 1), and are then ‘given over’ to these sinful ways, which become habitual and come to characterise them.

Why have I written this Gem as I have? Because I care about you all. I actually like Hillary Barry, but I disagree with the cavalier way in which she turned the truth and depth of Revelation 21:8 into a joke. John has warned us over and over of the need to deal with our sin that separates us from God, the result of which will ultimately see us suffer the fate of the Children of Darkness.

Finally, think about the issue of lying. Truth is one of the themes of John’s Gospel as it is also in Revelation. Jesus embodied truth; He told us “He is the Way, the Truth and the Life”, no one comes to the Father and gains entry to heaven while allowing themselves to continue to practise the sins listed in Revelation 21:8. Jesus didn’t just speak some truisms, He is the Truth. Imagine standing before the One who is Truth, knowing that He knows everything you have ever done. I believe you would fall on your knees and beg for mercy. The time for requesting God’s mercy is way before that moment on Judgement Day. I have dared to tell you what is trustworthy and true because I don’t want anyone being assigned to the Lake of Fire at the Second Death or suffering eternal conscious torment. However God gives us all free choice to choose His way to the Life of the Age to Come. Our choice is what ultimately separate us from Him.

You cannot be serious.

John McEnroe vs Tom Gullikson, 1st Round of Wimbledon 5/4 1st set, line ball called a fault.

Gay people will go to hell unless they repent of their sin.

Israel Folau’s post on social media, 5th April 2018.

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Evelyn Beatrice Hall in her 1906 book The Friends of Voltaire

I would rather you hate me for telling you the truth behind Revelation 21:8 than for you to love me for telling you lies.

Ian

You can test the IQ of any politician by asking two simple questions: What is a woman? How many genders are there?

Ian